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	<title>Comments on: 13 local pension plans worse than RI&#8217;s; Cranston, Scituate lag</title>
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		<title>By: John H Lyman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-49530</link>
		<dc:creator>John H Lyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 21:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-49530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From your figures it seems that the only ones that paid their share into the system were the employees and the teachers.  The money came out of each pay check on time and in the right amount.  If the state and local politicians had put their share in the only bad guy in this would be the investements. The politicians withheld their pension moneys to balance local and state budgets hopeing that investements or future tax surpluses would cover them.
Their bet failed now the only ones with clean hands are made to pay the price.
Often forgotten in this blame the unions strategy is that unions do not sign a unilateral contract - management also has to agree or no contract.  Workers, union members,retirees, and taxpayers are having to pay for the sins of the politicians.  They should be the ones paying or being the guest of the corrections department and still taking from the state not helping the state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From your figures it seems that the only ones that paid their share into the system were the employees and the teachers.  The money came out of each pay check on time and in the right amount.  If the state and local politicians had put their share in the only bad guy in this would be the investements. The politicians withheld their pension moneys to balance local and state budgets hopeing that investements or future tax surpluses would cover them.<br />
Their bet failed now the only ones with clean hands are made to pay the price.<br />
Often forgotten in this blame the unions strategy is that unions do not sign a unilateral contract &#8211; management also has to agree or no contract.  Workers, union members,retirees, and taxpayers are having to pay for the sins of the politicians.  They should be the ones paying or being the guest of the corrections department and still taking from the state not helping the state.</p>
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		<title>By: GaryM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48815</link>
		<dc:creator>GaryM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doug

I found the Treas report referenced above at the below address.  You will see on page 29 a chart showing how ERSRI stacked up against other plan funding ratio&#039;s.  1999-2000 appears to be the glory years for everyone.

http://linux01.crystalgraphics.com/view/9f9d0-NjJkY/Special_House_Commission_to_Study_All_Aspects_of_The_State_Pension_and_Retirement_System_flash_ppt_presentation]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug</p>
<p>I found the Treas report referenced above at the below address.  You will see on page 29 a chart showing how ERSRI stacked up against other plan funding ratio&#8217;s.  1999-2000 appears to be the glory years for everyone.</p>
<p><a href="http://linux01.crystalgraphics.com/view/9f9d0-NjJkY/Special_House_Commission_to_Study_All_Aspects_of_The_State_Pension_and_Retirement_System_flash_ppt_presentation" rel="nofollow">http://linux01.crystalgraphics.com/view/9f9d0-NjJkY/Special_House_Commission_to_Study_All_Aspects_of_The_State_Pension_and_Retirement_System_flash_ppt_presentation</a></p>
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		<title>By: GaryM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48558</link>
		<dc:creator>GaryM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 00:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doug,

The Treas Office also tracked the high of the state of RI pension funding as being in late 1999 just before the dot com bubble burst.  There is a chart in one of the 2008 reports I saw out of the Treas office that shows the down hill in the pension trust fund (on a percentage funding basis) that happened in the 3 years after 1999. 
 
 It never recovered]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>The Treas Office also tracked the high of the state of RI pension funding as being in late 1999 just before the dot com bubble burst.  There is a chart in one of the 2008 reports I saw out of the Treas office that shows the down hill in the pension trust fund (on a percentage funding basis) that happened in the 3 years after 1999. </p>
<p> It never recovered</p>
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		<title>By: Doug from South County</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48506</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug from South County</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I remember right, Narragansett was telling it&#039;s employees less than 10 years ago that the plan was 105% funded.  Now the auditor general says it is only 69.9% and the town only put in 63% last year.   What happened to their big fix a few years back?   Where did the money go?  Sounds like some town officials (the ones still living) have explaining to do....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I remember right, Narragansett was telling it&#8217;s employees less than 10 years ago that the plan was 105% funded.  Now the auditor general says it is only 69.9% and the town only put in 63% last year.   What happened to their big fix a few years back?   Where did the money go?  Sounds like some town officials (the ones still living) have explaining to do&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48481</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any town or city under 50% has other issues. For the benefit of the taxpayers it would be best if these cities file chapter 9 and break all these contracts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any town or city under 50% has other issues. For the benefit of the taxpayers it would be best if these cities file chapter 9 and break all these contracts.</p>
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		<title>By: janskor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48480</link>
		<dc:creator>janskor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely. The State Police and Judges are &quot;GOLDEN BOYS&quot; and weren&#039;t touched, but Gina made such a to do about teachers and other state workers who don&#039;t even come close to the expense of the golden boys, that the public were led away from the issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely. The State Police and Judges are &#8220;GOLDEN BOYS&#8221; and weren&#8217;t touched, but Gina made such a to do about teachers and other state workers who don&#8217;t even come close to the expense of the golden boys, that the public were led away from the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nesi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48477</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Aldo. That number shouldn&#039;t reflect GASB 45 though - it&#039;s a pension number, not a pension/OPEB number.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Aldo. That number shouldn&#8217;t reflect GASB 45 though &#8211; it&#8217;s a pension number, not a pension/OPEB number.</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48468</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Poor Flanders won&#039;t get a vacation for years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor Flanders won&#8217;t get a vacation for years.</p>
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		<title>By: Aldo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48467</link>
		<dc:creator>Aldo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted,

In some cases you are comparing apples and oranges. For example, only 10 years ago, West Warwick’s Pension Plan had an Unfunded Liability of only $1.6 million. The WW plan was actually funded at over 96%!!!!

You cite a current funding level of 26% but that is based upon figures from 1 July 2010. And that is based upon GASP45 standards. When you factor in Health Care under GASP25, I believe the figure drops to about 14%. And that was almost a year and a half ago!! What do you think has happened to the town&#039;s portfolio in the interim?

What makes this particularly egregious is the fact that over the intervening years, I have personally raised red flags about the Pension Fund and was rewarded by being sued by a former Chair of the Pension Board for my efforts.

It was only after I raised the issue with former Auditor general Ernie Almonte, that the WW Town Council came up with a plan under which they should be paying 100% of the Actuary’s ARC.  Yeah right. Not even close.

You can check out the last Report on the Pension Plan at: 

http://www.westwarwickri.org/vertical/Sites/%7B7B7C7E47-F7C1-4511-8CF3-EA8EBAF7D539%7D/uploads/2010_PensionValuationSigned.pdf

Unfortunately, I am of the opinion that the report really doesn’t tell the entire story because it blames the current condition of the fund on a lack of contributions by the town. I’m of the opinion that there were many other factors in play but because of internal town politics, nothing was ever done nor was any forensic audit ever conducted.

The other communities you’ve cited have always had problems. WW was not in the same category.  If you really want to delve into what is wrong with Municipal Pension Funds, take a long hard look at WW and the players involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted,</p>
<p>In some cases you are comparing apples and oranges. For example, only 10 years ago, West Warwick’s Pension Plan had an Unfunded Liability of only $1.6 million. The WW plan was actually funded at over 96%!!!!</p>
<p>You cite a current funding level of 26% but that is based upon figures from 1 July 2010. And that is based upon GASP45 standards. When you factor in Health Care under GASP25, I believe the figure drops to about 14%. And that was almost a year and a half ago!! What do you think has happened to the town&#8217;s portfolio in the interim?</p>
<p>What makes this particularly egregious is the fact that over the intervening years, I have personally raised red flags about the Pension Fund and was rewarded by being sued by a former Chair of the Pension Board for my efforts.</p>
<p>It was only after I raised the issue with former Auditor general Ernie Almonte, that the WW Town Council came up with a plan under which they should be paying 100% of the Actuary’s ARC.  Yeah right. Not even close.</p>
<p>You can check out the last Report on the Pension Plan at: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.westwarwickri.org/vertical/Sites/%7B7B7C7E47-F7C1-4511-8CF3-EA8EBAF7D539%7D/uploads/2010_PensionValuationSigned.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.westwarwickri.org/vertical/Sites/%7B7B7C7E47-F7C1-4511-8CF3-EA8EBAF7D539%7D/uploads/2010_PensionValuationSigned.pdf</a></p>
<p>Unfortunately, I am of the opinion that the report really doesn’t tell the entire story because it blames the current condition of the fund on a lack of contributions by the town. I’m of the opinion that there were many other factors in play but because of internal town politics, nothing was ever done nor was any forensic audit ever conducted.</p>
<p>The other communities you’ve cited have always had problems. WW was not in the same category.  If you really want to delve into what is wrong with Municipal Pension Funds, take a long hard look at WW and the players involved.</p>
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		<title>By: John R</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48465</link>
		<dc:creator>John R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted, if the two pay-as-you-go pensions plans for judges and state police were actuarially factored into the two funded plans for the same groups, the resulting funded percentage would easily rival those of some of the worse municipal plans indicated above.  However, Gina and the GA failed to address that issue, preferring to sweep it under the rug, to keep it from public and legislative consideration.  

As it stands now, the state has no idea what is owed for future benefits to those retirees.  If the state took the time and made the effort to calculate those obligations, surely it would shed a whole different light on the pension reforms recently passed for those groups.  

The result would easily be an eye opener, especially for the state police who have a large number of retirees that left at an earlier age than most.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, if the two pay-as-you-go pensions plans for judges and state police were actuarially factored into the two funded plans for the same groups, the resulting funded percentage would easily rival those of some of the worse municipal plans indicated above.  However, Gina and the GA failed to address that issue, preferring to sweep it under the rug, to keep it from public and legislative consideration.  </p>
<p>As it stands now, the state has no idea what is owed for future benefits to those retirees.  If the state took the time and made the effort to calculate those obligations, surely it would shed a whole different light on the pension reforms recently passed for those groups.  </p>
<p>The result would easily be an eye opener, especially for the state police who have a large number of retirees that left at an earlier age than most.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nesi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48440</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Roger, all of North Kingstown&#039;s pension plans are in the state-run MERS system that are restructured in the new pension law, so it doesn&#039;t have a locally run plan to worry about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, all of North Kingstown&#8217;s pension plans are in the state-run MERS system that are restructured in the new pension law, so it doesn&#8217;t have a locally run plan to worry about.</p>
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		<title>By: GaryM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48439</link>
		<dc:creator>GaryM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW - you can find the above numbers at: 

RI Auditor General Reports

http://www.oag.state.ri.us/reports/MuniPensionsRI2011.pdf

US Census Quick Facts (median 2005-2009)

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/44/4459000.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; you can find the above numbers at: </p>
<p>RI Auditor General Reports</p>
<p><a href="http://www.oag.state.ri.us/reports/MuniPensionsRI2011.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oag.state.ri.us/reports/MuniPensionsRI2011.pdf</a></p>
<p>US Census Quick Facts (median 2005-2009)</p>
<p><a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/44/4459000.html" rel="nofollow">http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/44/4459000.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: GaryM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48435</link>
		<dc:creator>GaryM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These numbers tell only part of the story.  Where the danger lies in in the ability to pay the pension mortgage.  Consider the following:

Cranston - Total Households 29,931, income per household $58,877 local pension liability $244,833,000 (16% funded)

Providence - Total Households 59,356, Income per household $37,273, local pension liability $828,484,000 (34% funded)


Now ask the following question: If you had to lend money to either of the two cities above, which would it be?  

In spite of Providence having a better percentage pension funding, it doesn&#039;t take much to realize which city has the better ability to carry the mortgage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These numbers tell only part of the story.  Where the danger lies in in the ability to pay the pension mortgage.  Consider the following:</p>
<p>Cranston &#8211; Total Households 29,931, income per household $58,877 local pension liability $244,833,000 (16% funded)</p>
<p>Providence &#8211; Total Households 59,356, Income per household $37,273, local pension liability $828,484,000 (34% funded)</p>
<p>Now ask the following question: If you had to lend money to either of the two cities above, which would it be?  </p>
<p>In spite of Providence having a better percentage pension funding, it doesn&#8217;t take much to realize which city has the better ability to carry the mortgage.</p>
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		<title>By: roger jadosz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.wpri.com/2011/12/05/worst-local-pension-plans-are-in-cranston-scituate-coventry/comment-page-1/#comment-48426</link>
		<dc:creator>roger jadosz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.wpri.com/?p=38009#comment-48426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where does North Kingstown rank?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where does North Kingstown rank?</p>
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